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 <title>iMechanica - Maxwell stress of a dielectric  elastomer subjected to electric field - Comments</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799</link>
 <description>Comments for &quot;Maxwell stress of a dielectric  elastomer subjected to electric field&quot;</description>
 <language>en</language>
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 <title>Maxwell stress is in general a bad idea for solids</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13924</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;As discussed in our papers and the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/949&quot;&gt;lecture notes&lt;/a&gt;, the Maxwell stress only applies only when the dielectric behavior is liquid-like, unaffected by deformation.&amp;nbsp; In general, the voltage-generated deformation can be treated as part of a material model.&amp;nbsp; The idea of body force can be confusing, and is not needed.&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:55:21 -0400</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Zhigang Suo</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13924 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>I appreciate your reply</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13843</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
I appreciate your reply very much, Zhigang, and I learned a lot from you notes and lectures. &lt;br /&gt;
I am reading your two interesting papers posted here, I think both of them are very helpful to me.
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&lt;p&gt;
Can we understand the Maxwell stress as follow?
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&lt;p&gt;
Despite Maxwell stress can be treated as a body force, and we can determine analytically and numerically the magnitude of Maxwell stress (not zero in FE simulation),&amp;nbsp; In fact, the
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&lt;p&gt;
The introduction of &amp;quot;body force&amp;quot; is just used to analyze the deformation induced by voltage, and the obtained &amp;quot;deformation&amp;quot;(displacement) of elastomer is reliable and effective, whereas the calculated &amp;quot;stress&amp;quot; is not actual stress in nature.
&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:27:00 -0400</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Lianhua Ma</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13843 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>More on the Maxwell stress</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13841</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
Dear Lianhua:&amp;nbsp;  I need to get ready to go to airport, so this reply will be short.&amp;nbsp;
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&lt;p&gt;
Thank you for your questions.&amp;nbsp; We struggled with the same questions when we started.&amp;nbsp; We have tried to resolve these questions in the following papers:
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
	Zhigang Suo, Xuanhe Zhao and William H. Greene, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.seas.harvard.edu/suo/papers/188.pdf&quot;&gt;A nonlinear field theory of deformable dielectrics&lt;/a&gt;. Journal of the Mechanics and Physics of Solids, 56, 467-286 (2008).&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Xuanhe Zhao, Wei Hong and Zhigang Suo, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.seas.harvard.edu/suo/papers/196.pdf&quot;&gt;Electromechanical coexistent states and hysteresis in dielectric elastomers&lt;/a&gt;, Physical Review B 76,134113 (2007).&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
These papers may take some time to read.&amp;nbsp; I have tried to condense the essential ideas in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/949&quot;&gt;lecture notes&lt;/a&gt;.&amp;nbsp;
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&lt;p&gt;
Now back to your specific questions.
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&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;strong&gt;How to interpret the Maxwell stresses in the directions transeverse to the direction of the electric field?&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp; I have not found a more intuitive interpretation than going through the derivation in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/949&quot;&gt;lecture notes&lt;/a&gt;.&amp;nbsp; But some experimental demonstrations might help.&amp;nbsp; On slide 8 of the first lecture for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/7383&quot;&gt;winter school on dielectric transducers&lt;/a&gt;, I described a classical experiment.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What is the actual stress in an elastomer subject to voltage?&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp; Zero.&amp;nbsp; The voltage-induced deformation can be thought in the same way as thermal strain.&amp;nbsp; When a freestanding material is subject to a change in temperature, the material changes its size.&amp;nbsp; This change is described as thermal expansion.&amp;nbsp; The stress in the material is zero.&amp;nbsp; The stress in the context of voltage-induced deformation is explained on p. 4 of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/949&quot;&gt;lecture notes&lt;/a&gt;. &amp;nbsp; 
	&lt;/li&gt;
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 <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:50:00 -0400</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Zhigang Suo</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13841 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>Thank you, Zhigang</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13839</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Thank you, Zhigang. &lt;/font&gt;
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&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;I can understand the three states of stress in your lecture posted here. &lt;/font&gt;
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&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;I think I have a further understanding of Maxwell stress by studing your notes. &lt;/font&gt;
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&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Before I made a mistake in presuming the Maxwell stress only exist in the direction of Electric field.&lt;/font&gt;
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&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
According to your lectures and&amp;nbsp; the theory of &amp;quot;Electrodynamics of Continuous Media&amp;quot;,&amp;nbsp; Maxwell stresses&amp;nbsp; exist in every direciton under &lt;br /&gt;
uniaxial electric field E. &lt;/font&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;For example, considering a flat dielectric elastomer subjected to&amp;nbsp; electric field E in thickness (z direction), the Maxwell stress in z direction is 1/2*e*E^2, Meanwhile, Maxwell stresses are also induced in both x and y direction with the magnitude&amp;nbsp; -1/2*e*E^2, despite the elastomer is free in x and y direction. &lt;/font&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Is that right?&amp;nbsp; &lt;/font&gt;
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&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;It seems not to be easily understood by our &amp;quot;feeling&amp;quot;, because of the free edge in x and y direciton.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/font&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Here the in-plane stresses can be regarded as body foces in x and y direciton. &lt;/font&gt;
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&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;In some papers, for&amp;nbsp; a dielectric elastomer subjected to electric field E in thickness direction,&amp;nbsp; Maxwell stress induced by E is assumed to exist in thickness direciton only(e*E^2), and the stresses in other direcitons are treated as zero.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; That is not a reasonable restriction? despite the two states of stress give the same state of deformation.&lt;/font&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;If we want to know the &amp;quot;actual&amp;quot; stress, that is to say, we measure the stress (in&amp;nbsp;thickness direction) &amp;nbsp;by expriment test for the elastomer subjected to E,&amp;nbsp; is the compression stress (in thickness direction)&amp;nbsp; e*E^2 or 1/2*e*E^2 ?&amp;nbsp;&lt;/font&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Thanks&lt;br /&gt;
L.H. &lt;/font&gt;
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&amp;nbsp;
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 <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:25:35 -0400</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Lianhua Ma</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13839 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>Maxwell stress represented in three ways</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13823</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
This difference was explained in my first lecture (slide 16) at a &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/7383&quot;&gt;winter school on dielectric transducers&lt;/a&gt;.&amp;nbsp; Because the elastomer is incompressible, the state of deformation induced by a voltage can be represented in three ways.&amp;nbsp; The three states of stress differ by superposing hydrostatic stress.&amp;nbsp; All three states of stress give the same state of deformation:&amp;nbsp; the elastomer reduces the thickness and expands the area.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
A detailed derivation of the Maxwell stress for elastomers is given in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imechanica.org/node/949&quot;&gt;notes&lt;/a&gt;  for a part of a course on advanced elasticity.&amp;nbsp;
&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:01:00 -0400</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Zhigang Suo</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13823 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>Thanks, Zhigang and Psaxena,</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13822</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
Thanks, Zhigang and Psaxena,
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&lt;p&gt;
Just as you mentioned, the difference of factor between Eq.(1) and (3) is due to the conversion of CGS system to MKS system.
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&lt;p&gt;
I have still a little question for you.
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&lt;p&gt;
According to the &amp;quot;Various extensions of the CGS system to electromagnetism&amp;quot; described in Wikipedia article, Eq(3) can be rewritten as the following form in SI (International System of Units) system,
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&amp;nbsp;(sigma)=(e/8/pi)*E^2 (CGS)= (e/2)*E^2&amp;nbsp; (SI)-----(4)&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; the main difference of the two systems of units lies in the factor 4pi. (point charges)
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
But now Eq(4) in SI system,&amp;nbsp; (sigma)= (e/2)*E^2&amp;nbsp; (SI), is still different from Eq(1) P=e*E^2 (SI), with the difference of a factor 1/2.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Can you help me out with this?
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Many thanks,&lt;br /&gt;
L.H
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&lt;p&gt;
&amp;nbsp;
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 <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:23:36 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Lianhua Ma</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13822 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>Re:</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13821</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
Second equation is correct (or more general I should say)... you can deduce the first one out of it using certain simplifications.
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&lt;p&gt;
A good reference reading would be &amp;quot;On electric body forces and Maxwell stresses in nonlinearly electroelastic solids&amp;quot; by Bustamante, Dorfmann, Ogden.
&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:06:49 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Prashant Saxena</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13821 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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 <title>Re:  Maxwell stress in a dielectric elastomer</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799#comment-13812</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
Landau and Lifshitz used the centimeter gram second (CGS) system of units.&amp;nbsp; The conversion of this system to the meter kologram second (MKS) system is described in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre_gram_second_system_of_units&quot;&gt;Wikipedia article&lt;/a&gt;.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
In particular, the factor 4pi is due to the difference of the two systems of units.&amp;nbsp; The two sets of equations have identical physical content.&amp;nbsp;
&lt;/p&gt;
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 <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:31:00 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Zhigang Suo</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">comment 13812 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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<item>
 <title>Maxwell stress of a dielectric  elastomer subjected to electric field</title>
 <link>http://www.imechanica.org/node/7799</link>
 <description>&lt;p&gt;
&amp;nbsp;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Hello everyone,
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
As reported in some references, Maxwell stress of a dielectric&amp;nbsp; elastomer subjected to electric field can be determined by the following formula
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
P=e*E^2&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; (1) -------e=e0*e1, e0 is the dielectric permittivity of vacuum, e1 is the relative dielectric permittivity of the elastomer, and E is the applied electric field.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
However I found another expression from&amp;nbsp; &amp;ldquo;Electrodynamics of Continuous Media&amp;rdquo;. (Landau and E.M. Lifshitz.,Course of Theoretical Physics. Vol. 8. 2nd Edition. Butterworth-Heinemann. Oxford. 1984. L.D. ), which is&amp;nbsp; described as follow,
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
(sigma)ik=(e/4/pi)(EiEk-1/2E^2 deltaik)&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; -(2)&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; pi=3.14
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
For a flat elatomer, the Maxwell stress in the direction of thickness can be written as,&amp;nbsp; (sigma)=(e/8/pi)*E^2&amp;nbsp; -----(3)
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eq(3) is definetely different from (1) ( in absence of 8*pi), I am confused with the expressions.&amp;nbsp;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Could you tell me which one is correct?
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&lt;p&gt;
Thanks&lt;br /&gt;
L.H
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 <category domain="http://www.imechanica.org/taxonomy/term/4943">Maxwell stress of a dielectric  elastomer subjected to electric field</category>
 <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:38:37 -0500</pubDate>
 <dc:creator>Lianhua Ma</dc:creator>
 <guid isPermaLink="false">7799 at http://www.imechanica.org</guid>
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